Vintage Sears Garden Tractors
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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me??

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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Empty What would cause my ignition swith to shock me??

Post  phydeux November 11th 2012, 1:30 pm

Its wired the same as the diagram. and has done this even before I cleaned and fixed the engine. It only happens while the engine is starting or running? i haven't been able to find any help on this matter. I'm assuming the charging wire is some how going throw the switch, and then shocking the crap out of me when I ground my other hand like on the choke. affraid its an st/16 that I acquired for free and they don't know anything about it. Im by no means an electrician. and can get by wearing gloves. however i'm hoping its not damaging something else. I hope this makes sense, this is my first rebuild. I really appreciate your help
Thanks
-Ryan

phydeux

Number of posts : 9
Age : 45
Registration date : 2012-05-25

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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Empty IGNITION PROBLEMS

Post  Georgia SS November 11th 2012, 11:07 pm

RYAN SURE SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE HAS PLAYED WITH YOUR WIRING. SO LETS ASSUME YOU HAVE A FIBERGLASS DASH AND TO BE ABLE TO KILL THE IGNITION NEEDED TO SHUT DOWN THE ST16 TECUMSEH YOU WILL NEED A GROUND WIRE FROM ENGINE OR FRAME TO GROUND THE SWITCH, IN THEORY YOU DON'T SWITCH THE IGNITION ON YOU ONLY SWITCH IT OFF BY SHORTING THE WIRE TO THE COIL TO GROUND. AND YES THE CHARGING CIRCUIT COMES THROUGH THE IGNITION SWITCH. SOMEWAY 12 VOLT IS GETTING TO THE IGN. SWITCH CASE OR HOUSING. THAT SHOULD BE GROUNDED BY THAT GROUND WIRE TO FRAME. DO THE EASY THING AND REPLACE THE IGN. SWITCH, BUT BE SURE THE SWITCH HAS A SMALL COPPER STRIP FROM ONE OF THE TERMINALS OUT TO THE HOUSING. NOT SURE IF IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THAT HIGH DOLLAR COIL IF ITS GETTING 12 VOLT INTO IT. MABY I HAVE NOT MESSED YOU UP. HAVE A GOOD ONE. JIMMY

Georgia SS

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Post  searsnut November 12th 2012, 11:00 am

The one Sears I owned had a grounding wire from the ignition switch to the frame because of the composite dashboard. There was a large washer style lug arrangement that fit over the barrel of the switch. This had a wire on it that led to a ground on the frame. When you tightened the nut on the switch, contact was made with the washer and the switch, thereby grounding the switch. I assumed that it was for the ignition short, not for grounding current that would normally be in the switch.

I suspect that you have a defective switch, or something is mis-wired. A defect would cause charging current to energize the metal exterior of the switch, thereby making you the grounding mechanism.

Edit: I'm saying basically the same thing as the other post, which I didn't read until writing this.

searsnut

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2012-10-03

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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Empty st/16 switch shock

Post  phydeux November 12th 2012, 12:57 pm

Ill start at the switch, I should have mentioned that I replaced the switch with one that LOOKED the same, they had two models though at the local parts store. I remember seeing the copper wire to the case, however the (what i thought was) original didn't. I swear I've triple checked the wiring and cleaned grounds even bought new bolts and wire where needed. I used a couple of schematics. It makes most sense that the charging circuit would be using me... then through the choke to ground.. I'm going to see what exactly is going on with the switch. Thanks for you input. technically the charge current shouldn't go through to the key and my hand right? and the magneto wire wouldn't do this? like i said, no electrician. thanks again

phydeux

Number of posts : 9
Age : 45
Registration date : 2012-05-25

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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Empty switch shock

Post  phydeux November 12th 2012, 3:02 pm

alright ...since the war department has deferred my tractor budget till further notice, i triedn to work with what i had. i tried just running a ground from the casing to the chassis, its seems to have worked, no showcking.. however i don't understand why. I thought theswitch was grounded I guess ill figure it out but for right now is this fix dangerous at all? don't laugh i'm a newbie. let me know. thanks

phydeux

Number of posts : 9
Age : 45
Registration date : 2012-05-25

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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Empty switch shock

Post  phydeux November 12th 2012, 5:57 pm

well scratch that last one, it did shock while turrning over, but no spark either. should I run the m wire to a serparat grounded switch for now?? like i said im trying to work with what I had, for now ill where rubber gloves while playing with it. ive checked everything on the schematic again too.

phydeux

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Age : 45
Registration date : 2012-05-25

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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Empty IGNITION PROBLEMS

Post  Georgia SS November 13th 2012, 12:30 am

WELL AT LEAST WE HAD A SUBJECT TO CREATE SOME INTEREST. ON SECOND THOUGHT, THE M VIRE COMING FROM THE MAG. OR IGN.COIL WILL KNOCK THE STEW OUT OF YOU IF YOU MAKE CONTACT WHILE THE ENGINE IS BEING STARTED OR RUNNING. SO THE MAG. WIRE MAY BE PLUGGED ON TO A TERMINAL THAT IS MAKING CONTACT INTERNALLY WITH THE SWITCH HOUSING. THANKS JIMMY

Georgia SS

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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Empty switch shock

Post  phydeux November 13th 2012, 11:33 am

I'm thinking of running the m wire to its own cheap (plastic) toggle switch. then look into getting the correct switch when i can get something better. in my investigating I've realized i'm not even seeing a charge coming out of the regulator/rectifier now. But its still shocking, lol and its starting to really get to me. I tried to get the wife to test it. but then thought better of it. Its got to be the magneto wire. If u hear of a guy in Utah wiring his tractor switch to the wives toothbrush....

phydeux

Number of posts : 9
Age : 45
Registration date : 2012-05-25

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Post  searsnut November 13th 2012, 8:34 pm

You may have installed a Battery Ignition type switch by mistake. This type of ignition uses energy from the battery to power the ignition. With these switches, turning the switch on energizes the ignition system. Turning them to the start position engages the starter. These engines will not run without a battery.

The correct switch for your tractor should provide ground for the ignition (to turn off) contact for the starter motor (to start) and an open circuit inbetween start and off for the engine to run without the ignition being grounded. This is a simplification of course to illustrate the differences. Your ignition system is self contained, without the need for battery power for spark.

The best solution would be to get the proper switch and ensure it's wired correctly.




searsnut

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Post  phydeux November 16th 2012, 10:47 am

apparently sears still sells it, for twenty bucks, same part number from the manual and its got the ground and everything, but its going to be two weeks. Thanks for your input,
-ryan

phydeux

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Post  TAHOE November 16th 2012, 1:59 pm

It sounds like you mentioned the problem when you said you replaced the switch, with the Solid State ignition, you have to make sure you have the correct switch. The battery coil type ignitions just turn the power off to the coils when you turn it off, the SSI system actually grounds the SSI module. As stated, once these motors get running, they do not need a battery to keep going. Make sure you do not put juice to that kill wire going down to the SSI module, you will fry one expensive electronic piece. 35 yr old used non gauranteed SSI mdoules are going for over $150 on evilbay now. I went through two in 1 month. I have now converted over to a protoype magnetic pickup style ignition that uses a battery style coil.
I would check the wiring coming from the flywheel tins up to the rectifier and make sure they haven't been changed. Could be very well someone wired one into the kill wire going to switch somehow.

Should look similar to this coming from flywheel, 3 wires, the center one is kill wire, the other two outside ones should be going to rectifier/regulator.

What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Photobucket-49636-1334853842538

TAHOE

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Post  TAHOE November 16th 2012, 2:41 pm

I forgot I had this pic, proper wiring diagram for this ignition letter designations.

What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Untitled

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TAHOE

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What would cause my ignition swith to shock me?? Empty switch shock

Post  phydeux November 17th 2012, 11:34 am

I've never really got into the engine and check yet. ill try today, i remember now that the ground and hot battery cables were crossed when I i got it,, so anything is possible. BTW what should the output of the regulator be?? and the ac coming engine?

phydeux

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Post  TAHOE November 19th 2012, 10:58 am

I just had to put on a new regulator on mine yesterday. Checked it at battery cables while running, I had 12.5 or so at idle, bumped up to 13.5-13.8 at WOT. I'm thinking voltage out of the flywheel is around 14. You can do quick check at battery by unplgging wires at regulator, checking battery voltage, then plugging back up and see if it changes. Since mine is converted to a battery fed coil, I have it easy to see voltage changes since battery feeds my coil. The SSI units do not do this.
Oh, I am using a 15 amp, 403 regulator from a Kohler CV22, works just fine.

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